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 Please - peace
Author: Jonas 
Date:   16-09-01 11:24

I truly hope that the tragedy in NYC will not be an excuse for war (though it probably will!).

Respect the dead by advocating peace.

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 Re: Please - peace
Author: Scott 
Date:   17-09-01 00:54

Sometimes you have to fight fire with fire. America didn't start this, but we will sure end it. And hopefully the world will be a better place.

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 Re: Please - peace
Author: Panos 
Date:   17-09-01 01:29

The sure thing is that fighting fire with fire will definitely result in more tragedies and not only in the USA. Anyway, think about all the innocent people killed in the Vietnam war, in the Kosovo war, in the Gulf war, by the US army. I am near the Kosovo region (I am Greek) and let me tell you this war thing didn't feel right at all. The US had to pay for its arrogance.

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 Re: Please - peace
Author: TJ 
Date:   17-09-01 08:04

Even in 1973, a Canadian understood how worthy Americans are, and broadcasted his statement over the air, in Canada. I'm sick and tired of American's being the constant targets for attacks. If somebody wants to fight, then declare war. If somebody wants to hijack plane(s) and destroy some of our valued buildings, their a faceless coward. I urge you to read http://www.rcc.ryerson.ca/ccf/news/unique/am_text.html, and soon to be mirrored on my website (no domain yet), and tell me if you think any of his opinions have changed in 28 years, besides the "current" problems in 1973.

I was born in 1976, his broadcast was in 1973. ALL of my life, we've been the victims. I'm tired of it. We have the technology and money to severely damage a large part of other contries, yet we sit by and forgive country after country!

"Please - peace" is quite the opposite from what I'm thinking. We need to show others our value. We need to show others our opinions. We need to show others our country. What do you think will happen if we "forgive" again? I sure you know.

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 Re: Please - peace
Author: Xaphod 
Date:   17-09-01 10:52

> We need to show others our value

So bombing some third world country into oblivion send a worthwhile message does it?

I think not. It sends the same kind of message the school bully sends when he beats up some poor little kid that has absolutely no chance to defend themselves.

Violence breeds hate, and hate breeds more violence. The attacks on America are one of the greatest obscenities ever seen on our televisions. But using them as an excuse to whip-up public support for a War is wrong. It escalates the cycle of violence, and shows the terrorists that, in the final analysis, there is very little difference between them and us.

Vengance tempered by Justice, and a deep consideration for and innocents in the way, is the only way to deal with those behind the attacks on America.

And if we want to stop anything like this happening again, let's do something about reducing the amount of hate in this world. Rather than by increasing the body count.

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 Re: Please - peace
Author: TJ 
Date:   17-09-01 11:08

Xaphod:

No, you misunderstood my post --

Our value, our worth -- what we've given to other countries for nothing in exchange. Our value of technology, putting people on the moon and safely back home again. Our value. Our exports and imports to the nation. Our technology shared with the other nations. This is a very touchy subject; I can't explain the way I see it very well, if at all.

True, Violence breeds Hate, Hate breeds Violence. I don't doubt that.

I did *NOT* promote war. I think we need, however, a way to tell the nations without war, about what they're doing to us, (attacking us), will not go without reaction. I sure hope that it is not war that shows this. I DO hope that it is through national support.

I hope this clarified my post a bit.

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 Re: Please - peace
Author: Xaphod 
Date:   17-09-01 12:17

Perhaps I did misunderstand your post. But you did seem to be advocating the opposite to peace i.e. war. Indeed, my first reaction to seeing the pictures of the terror attacks on Americas was

"hope they nuke the f**kers".

Perhaps it's because I'm not American, and therefore I'm at least partially divorced from the events last week. But my views have changes somewhat.

Yes, the fact that it looks likely that 5000 people died as a result of terrorism is an obscenity. But what about the 19000 children that die each day thanks to the cripiling $215 Billion debt the third world is labouring under. Is this not an obscenity too? Or just Economics?

You wish to emphasise "Our value, our worth". The value of our technology, of putting people on the moon. Well, putting a man on the moon was indeed the greatest technological acheivment ever. But to what end? It cost $50 Billion, and we don't go there any more.

And what about Imports and Exports? It it helps boost our standard of living - we don't do it out of altruism. I saw a picture a while back of a starving child playing with a toy truck he'd made. The wheels were made from Coke cans. This child barely get enough food to survive, but he could get a Coke-A-Cola.

What use is our great technology to these people? Well, we've given them better ways to kill each other. But I'm sure they don't have the internet, television, washing-machines, cars, and all the other "necessities" of life.

Do really think that starving and downtrodden peoples in the world are really going to value us and our acheivments? Or do you think they are going to resent us? And resent our high standard of living?

I live my life in my own little world. It's a comfortable world. But I'm ashamed of it. I feel that once we have dealt with those behind the attacks on America we need to come together and address the real issues. To see to it that the whole world has the lifestyle and the technological benefits that I take for granted.

And what a fitting memorial it would be who so tragically lost their lives last week.

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 Re: Please - peace
Author: Jim 
Date:   17-09-01 16:00

Those responsible for the tradegy have to be brought to justice, period. Should we just sweep it under the carpet and not do anything? That's just an open door for more terrorist attacks. Osama Bin Ladan was given 72 hours to turn himself over. What if he doesn't? Well, maybe we should just say "OK" we tried, and pack-up our stuff and send our troops back to the USA. There are times when diplomacy ends.

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 Re: Please - peace
Author: Chrissy 
Date:   22-09-01 09:49

Jim, you said

: There are times when diplomacy ends.

That is when we, the civilised people of the world, should resort to the only thing we have left humanitarianism. You, and others, criticise others for killing but have no problem killing others if they do what you do not like.

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 Re: Please - peace
Author: Panos 
Date:   23-09-01 02:00

Americans have only notions and NOT EVIDENCE about the guiltiness of Osama Bin Laden.This is the first thing. Second thing is the fact that all day long I see in the CNN channel "America's war against terrorism". Well is it truly against terrorism or against Afghanistan? If a country wants to fight terrorism, it will fight internal terrorism, not declare war against other countries shouting out that this is war against terrorism. For example, in this way England could declare war to terrorism and start bombing France because England had notions (even evidence) that the terrorist who killed 5K people in London using a bunch of C4 explosives is French.

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 Re: Please - peace
Author: Dan Langille 
Date:   23-09-01 03:11

Panos wrote:
>
> Americans have only notions and NOT EVIDENCE about the
> guiltiness of Osama Bin Laden.

Bin Laden has already been indicted twice in the World Court. For this he is a wanted man. For the WTC incident, the evidence is still being collected. What do you expect? It to be publicly displayed?

> This is the first thing.

It is nothing.

> Second
> thing is the fact that all day long I see in the CNN channel
> "America's war against terrorism". Well is it truly against
> terrorism or against Afghanistan?

Americans have nothing against Afghanistan in general. Specifically, they object to the harbouring of known and indicted criminals.

> If a country wants to fight
> terrorism, it will fight internal terrorism, not declare war
> against other countries shouting out that this is war against
> terrorism.

Crap. Why only internal terrorism? Much terrorism is exported. Deal with the source, regardless of location.

> For example, in this way England could declare war
> to terrorism and start bombing France because England had
> notions (even evidence) that the terrorist who killed 5K
> people in London using a bunch of C4 explosives is
> French.

A poor analogy. Please get with the program or piss off. Nationality has nothing to do with this issue.

Finally: Did you not read my notice. I'd rather you address my article than spout political propaganda. Withdraw or grow up.

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 Re: Please - peace
Author: Angst 
Date:   06-10-01 11:05

TJ wrote:

>If somebody wants to fight, then declare war.

In case you didn't know ... The USA has bombed 18 countries since the WW2 and there was a formal declaration of war in only 5 cases (NOT in Vietnam war).

>what we've given to other countries for nothing in exchange.

Do you know that Americans, comprising some 4% of the world's population, consume approximately 40% of its resource?

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 Re: Please - peace
Author: Simon 
Date:   17-11-01 00:36

These terrorists will not stop if we forgive them. They will keep coming. A reponse of force is not to punish, but to deter them and others from doing it again. A lot of peace advocators forget that peace is anything but free and must be defended.

This third-world country harboured the terrorists and worked very closely with them. They were given a chance to hand this guy over and refused. The responce is warranted.

The US and NATO allies are the strongest and most advanced forces inthe world. If anoter party decides they want to attack any of us, we will respond and in a force that is decisive.

I am just greatful that this thing has not resulted in any thermonuclear confrontation at this time -- the world would surely change.

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 Re: Please - peace
Author: jimmie 
Date:   12-06-02 20:44

Alright, as a Canadian who was there, I'd like to put my two cents in. Sure it's late, but at least it's not never.

First, terrorism is a world issue, there is not one nation, there is one planet, and we are all the same.

Secondly, the issue isn't as black and white as it seems, there is always atleast three sides to every issue, your's, mine, their's and the truth.....

Thirdly, the only way to stop violence IS violence... Kill all humans and let the smart animals have the planet back.


Flame me, hate me or agree with me. My opinion.

Jimmie

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 Re: Please - peace
Author: N 
Date:   04-09-02 12:03

i am from europe. So i am not so emotionally envolved in this
topic like americans are.

TJ, you behave like a 16 years old boy. "He hit me, so i have
the right to hit him". That is bullshit as your mother should
have told you, but now it is to late i think.
It is a general problem that americans are not able to think about
problems from another point of view. You just see your thing.
"They attacked the greatest nation of the world, the have to be
punished!"
You simply do not think about political and, much more important, economical depedencies. America is a baby-nation and
a nation of babies, with no moral, no other values than money and
personal profit. That is a a lot too general. I now that not all
americans are like that (but 99,999999999%), so please do not
bore me with comments about that (I do not want to talk about the
picture that americans have from other countries. "Do you have
telefones or cars or warm water???" Who doesnt know this narrow
minded questions).

But to get concret:
"a Canadian understood how worthy americans are"
That is a little simplified. Americans are not more worthy than
any other nation. They have great influence because of military
and economical power. That is a difference.

"I'm sick and tired of american's being the constant targets for attacks." Lets laugh. I am sick and tired of seeing America
invading other countries and kicking human rights with feet.
You have to think about why america is a "constant" target to
terroris activity. I leave this as exercise for the reader ;-)

"ALL of my life, we've been the victims" Lets laugh and have a party. You are the victims. How sweet, come to me boy, I will dry
your tears. Tell that to the people in Afghanistan. You are sitting in front of a Computer, drinking beer, eating chips.
You are such a poor victim.

"We have the technology and money to severely damage a large
part of other contries, yet we sit by and forgive country after country!" That is what i am talking about. You just see your thing. Your opinion means: As long as i can drive my oversized
car and can eat junkfood, it is ok if other people die in the
third world.
You do not see an very important thing. america will never live
in peace, if there are still people dying from hunger. Think about
that. Think about what it means to suffer hunger. Imagine it would
be the other way around. Afghanistan would invade america and all americans would suffer hunger. Would you not do EVERYTHING that your children/parents/wife/sisters/... have something to eat.
That is just a starting point. Try to imagine what you would do in their situation.

"We need to show others our value" If you show your "value" with force against other countries, you dont have value to the world any longer.

"We need to show others our opinion" You do that all the time.
Before shouting out your opinion, try to listen to other opinions.
The american opinion is not more important as the spanish/greek/
afghanistan opinion.

"We have the technology and money to severely damage a large
part of other contries" If you have such great amounts of money
an power, why dont you use it to help other people (i mean real
help, not the american self-profit-"help"). If you would support a
foreign country, no one from this country would even think about
starting terrorim against america.

And one last word to jimmi:
"Thirdly, the only way to stop violence IS violence... Kill all humans and let the smart animals have the planet back."

Think about blood-revenge: I kill your father, you kill me. My
brother rapes your sister/mother. You kill him. My nephew kills
your brother. You burn his house.
This will go on for ever. From a global view it is the same with
nations. Violence is not a solution. In europe we had CENRURIES
of war. At last we saw that we would eradicate each other, if we
could not find a solution that would enable us to live in peace.
This is what the selfish and egomanic americans still have to
learn. RESPECT is the fundament for peace. You dont have to agree
with others, but respect their opinion and their rights.
I could go on for hours, but i have to save my power for all
the answers of angry nazi-americans i think.

PS: TJ please dont bore us with another senseless webpage. There is really enough crap on the web.

N

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